Rosie Jones Transcript

https://pod.fo/e/166105

Margaret: Hello and welcome to Crushed by Margaret Cabourn- Smith, a podcast about the cringing and winging of unrequited love. My guest today is legendary, superstar, stand-up, writer and broadcaster, Rosie Jones!

Rosie: Hello.

Margaret: Hello, Rosie. So excited to talk to you.

Rosie: Me too. And uh, I can already. Tell that we're gonna be here for about eight hours.

Margaret: Yeah. The sun will be going down as we continue to talk about this. Um, so you've always struck me as a confident minx. Um, do you suffer from crushes? I mean, I'm, I know what the answer is.

Rosie: Oh my God. I feel like this podcast is made for me. Yeah, you're right. I am confident. Oh, I have a lot of friends, but when it comes to love, no. I was thinking on the way here.

And we'll get into this in some detail. Yeah. I have had a constant crush, different people, but have always crushed on somebody since I was four years old.

Margaret: Wow. No breaks.

Rosie: No breaks, and not even that. As well as that, I constantly have. Three layers of crush. Yes.

Margaret: Oh my God. And has that been, that can't have been the same since you were four?

Rosie: Yeah.

It's like. A crush trifle.

Margaret: Well, come on. We need to get into this. Is it best to do the top layer first?

Rosie: No, let's do the custard.

Margaret: I can't remember where the custard is.

Rosie: The custard is the, the bottom. Okay. I, I mean people will complain , but I think I'm, going custard Jam cream strawberries.

Margaret: Wow. Okay.

Rosie: We can add strawberries.

Margaret: All right. I mean, I, now, I, I feel like we could talk about trifle first for the next hour, but let's try and get back on track.

Rosie: Custard. This is the big one. The big old, um, like all-consuming crush, and I average a custard crush for about five to eight years.

Margaret: Wow.

Rosie: Since, since I was four. Yeah. So like at four years old, my crush was my teacher's aide.

Margaret: Right.

Rosie: Which at four years old, I probably didn't recognise it as a crush. I just knew that I wanted to hold her hand. Oh. A lot.

Margaret: And did you get to hold her hand?

Rosie: Oh yes.

Margaret: Oh my God. You see, that's what I mean about the confident bit. That is… I'm glad that at least you've got that hand holding to.

Rosie: Oh Margaret, I've always been a bit of a pervert

Margaret: oh yeah. It's the first thing I noticed…

Rosie: and even from four years old, I would absolutely look at cerebral palsy and be like, no I actually can't walk anywhere about holding your hand

Margaret: I mean, you've gotta use it, haven't you?

Rosie: I know, and I even took it to uber levels of pervertness I would pretend that I needed a nap. So, she would stroke my hair.

Margaret: Oh my God. I mean, if I could do that now, I would totally take that. Yeah.

Rosie: So, that's my custard crush. Yes. And that has been throughout my life. I'll meet someone. And before I came out. It used to be a friend, a straight friend that I will go -

I dunno why. I tell you what, I will think about her every day for the next seven years…

Margaret: Did you think that that was for want of a better word, normal? Like, did you think everyone does this?

This is what you do, this is what life is. Yeah. You just fixate. On a person. Yeah.

Rosie: And I didn't, didn't want to do this cause I love how lovely and lighthearted this podcast is, but I'll say this and then we'll get to the lighthearted stuff.

Margaret: Listen, we can stay with the, we can stay with the darkest stuff that you like. I love it.

Rosie: Um, I have always had crushes that I don't tell them about.

And I think growing up. It was mainly to do with my disability

And this is something that I am still working on, but deep down there's a, a voice in me that goes, oh, they're amazing. They're so amazing. They deserve someone not disabled. They deserve someone, better than me, so, I'll just like them from afar, I'll be a really good friend and then they'll meet someone that deserves them. That they deserve,

Margaret: That's so sad. But I think that happens loads, that internalised... It's just rejection, isn't it?

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: It's a way of just going, oh God. Well, no, obviously I'm not... Yeah, yeah. Good enough.

Rosie: You know, I have so far been to three weddings, where at some point I have had a raging crush on the bride.

Margaret: Wow.

And how did it, were they different? I mean obviously they're different, but like how did you feel at those weddings?

Rosie: A range.

So, two out of the three, I love their partner. It was a long time ago that I had those feelings, so I was like, Great, fine. I'm happy. Lovely day.

Margaret: Come on. Then gimme the third.

Rosie: the third one, I'm being quite vague.

Big time custard crush for eight years and oh - I'm also a psychopath…

Margaret: Sure. I'm writing this all down.

Rosie: So. Eight years. I had told her I loved her a million times in my head. I had planned how we get together, what our house should look like, how I would propose, our wedding.

Bla bla bla. Psychopath!

Margaret: Well, if you are, I am too. And a lot of us are. I mean, I don't think, yeah, that's definitely not psychopathic. I think there's loads more people choosing furnishings than you'd think.

Rosie: I was fully over her by then.

That wedding day was like, oh, I spent a third of my life thinking your wedding day would be my wedding day, oh God, yeah. And now I'm here. Um, and I'm watching you marrying someone else and, um, my mum and dad were there and I had not told my mum any of this. And I was very drunk, and my mum took me to the toilet and said, are you okay. And I went don't, don't ask me that and then it clicked and she went -

You loved her, didn't you? And I, went. Yeah.

Margaret: Was that good to hear though?

Rosie: Um,

Margaret: that she got it? Was she the first person you told? Did other people know that you felt like that?

Rosie: No.

Margaret: That's a big secret to keep. Yes. Yeah.

Rosie: Huge.

And I was in love with her when I was in the closet and thought, oh God, for literally years. I was like, I'm not gay, I'm not gay!

She's like, the exception. And I reckon I'm the exception for her.

I wasn't, and when, she met someone

Margaret: Did, was it a man?

Did she marry a man?

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: Oh wow.

Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

Margaret: Well, at least, yeah, you can still keep that. Yeah. You were the, you could have been the exception for her.

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: I mean, listen, and the other thing you should have done is like, looked at that wedding and gone, well, I wouldn't have had those flowers. I wouldn't have invited those people?

Rosie: You know what? I think I was very grown up in what I did after that. I had a little cry with my mum. Wiped up her tears, went out and I drank 18 shots.

Margaret: of what?

Rosie: Everything. Literally.

Margaret: Did you do that thing where you went round the tables? Just clearing off everything that had been like,

Rosie: oh yeah. Oh my.

Margaret: Oh, so free as well…

I mean, the dream. Yeah, sure. So grown up. Listen, it was grown up. If you didn't tell the bride. No, you know, that would've been, that would've been the proper psychopath thing to do.

Rosie: Yeah, and that's the thing - we'll probably get into it later, but there has been crushes that I told, and I've had various, um, success rates but with this one, she's still a friend and mm-hmm. And I never told her because I think deep down, she understands, and she gets it. And I feel like if I said, oh, fun fact, I was in love with you twelve years ago, it would maybe affect our friendship.

Margaret: Well, that's what I was gonna say. It would. Because it's weird, isn't it? We, we rarely talk about what it's like to be on the other end of it when, when someone says that they had a crush on you. But sometimes that can feel like a betrayal or like, oh, you kept that a secret when we were so close.

Yeah. Or sometimes, oh, and you what? You don't feel that now? Yeah. Well that's upsetting.

What did I do?

Rosie: And yeah, again, I'm taking it a little bit darker. Woo. So add to that lovely internalised ableism... In hindsight, I probably had an internal homophobia. When growing up I think the word lesbian had such… and lesbians were seen to be quite masculine, maybe for me, edging on predatory, and I never ever wanted to be that or give that image. I worried about telling a seemingly straight woman that I have, feelings for them. Cause I felt like that would affect our friendships.

We'd shared the same bed, we'd held hands, we'd seen each other in our bras.

I didn't want them to feel like, oh, that whole time she's been creeping on me. Cause I hadn't! In most of the time these feelings were so innocent, and it wasn't. "Oh, great. I saw her in her bra and knickers", it was more, "oh, when I'm with her my, I just feel so warm and safe". Like it was always so innocent for me, so I never wanted that to change how they acted around me.

Margaret: Yeah. And change what they thought of you. I was thinking this about, about homophobia and how, um, how often the thing is like, oh, oh, you must, uh, a lesbian would fancy all women - that's not how it works. No. You know, and just because you have a close friend of the same sex, doesn't mean you fancy them. In the same way that nobody fancies everyone. I mean, maybe someone fancies everyone.

I've never met that person.

Rosie: I mean, she's a great friend, but I have one friend who, when I came out, she said to me, have you ever fancied me? And I thought she was saying it to. Be like worried or concerned and I hadn't so I said, “never, like, never, ever, ever!”

Margaret: too, too much now, too much.

Rosie: Not even fancied you for one second! And she was like…. Oh.

Margaret: That's the thing. I think it's rude to tell anyone. You don't fancy them. I think it's just, just if anyone asks, just say yeah a bit. Yeah.

So listen, when you came out, what, what, what changed? What had changed? Was there someone that you liked? That you managed to

tell or?

Rosie: I was quite old. I was 27. Um, and I had been in London for a few years, so,

Margaret: well that'll turn you fast enough.

Rosie: But it was amazing cause I as I say. I come from a Yorkshire little town.

Like, I came to London and, and I thought, oh, I can keep my long hair. I can wear dresses. I can be girly. So that I opened my view in a refreshing way and then the big custard crush had been going on for eight years, so I then I was - I need to stop kidding myself that I'm not gay. It isn't just her and I need to allow myself to… it almost felt like a balloon popping and by then I was doing stand-up comedy a bit. I just met you .

Margaret: Yeah. I mean that's the big thing that will turn you.

Rosie: So good. I met you.

Margaret: Well by the end of that day....

Rosie: people need to know!

And through comedy and boy I could talk about comedy all day, but I think what's amazing about it. It can be so real and authentic. And I was starting stand up and I was talking about crushes or people I fancied, and I was like changing their pronouns to he…

Margaret: Oh wow.

Rosie: And then my head, I was like, That's not true.

Why are you saying it? And for me, there's some great, great comedians who can spin stuff and make up something, but I think. For me, all my jokes, I know my jokes need to come from a real place, and so I thought if I'm properly going to do this, I've got to be my authentic self that I pushed down for 27 years. But yeah, I just popped that balloon and I just felt lighter .

Margaret: And did you feel more able to approach people that you fancied?

Rosie: I mean, I am 32 and I still have my trifle crushes.

Margaret: Yes.

Rosie: My custard crush, um, has been going on for four years. And I did tell her.

Margaret: Oh God. Congratulations. What happened?

Rosie: Uh, she….

She's been sitting here very quietly….

Sorry I keep calling you custard! Oh my God. I entered, uh uh, the next layer of psychotic. A psychotic trifle . Yeah. Yeah. So, um, let, um, I met her, really liked her. Didn't tell her four years. God, and I thought, I can't ever tell her. So I did something totally normal, normal. So normal. Normal. I wrote a children's book, normal. Normal! And my children book's about a girl with Cerebral Palsy I dunno, where I get my ideas?

Margaret: Your imagination, honestly…

Rosie: no. But wait, for it. That girl with Cerebral Palsy has a crush on her friend.

Margaret: Oh, wow.

Rosie: And at the end, they kiss and it, is all really like wholesome, like. Yeah, but, BUT the friend is based on the woman, the I have a crush on.

Margaret: Very, does she have the same name?

Rosie: No. No.

Margaret: Oh, cunning . So you weren't that psychopathic. Yeah, you could have done that. And sent it to her. What do you reckon to this?

Rosie: Cos she'd been a good friend , she, um, read an early copy and she liked it and, um, and I said to her, oh, um, you are Flora.

Margaret: Oh my God. Um, and did you say it in person?

Rosie: No. No. I couldn't.

Margaret: No, no, no. That's step too far. Fair enough. No. Another 27 years for that

Rosie: Come on, I wrote it on a cake. I send all my messages like that. Happy birthday!

Um, and she was wonderful and she was really, um, taken aback and said, that's amazing, but I don't see you that way. But actually I didn't mind that because I feel like…

When. Mm-hmm. I was much younger. Um, a lot of that pain came from not having an outlet for my love. I think it felt quite beautiful to be like, I'm telling you this and I don't want anything from you. But the love and feelings I have for you has made me want to write this book.

Margaret: That's so beautiful.

Rosie: I find happiness from that. I'm proud of everything that I've done, um, but something I'm most proud of are my children's books. Children come up to me and say, I love your books. And the main character

Edie is disabled, funny, confident and Flora, her friend, who was based on my custard crush is amazing and, and, and then my favourite thing.

People come up to me and go, my favourite character is Flora.

Cause she' s shy and I can always say, oh, secretly Flora's my favourite too . Because she' s based on one of my best friends and she's my favourite person. And I would, so actually, I put my love into my art. I'm pretentious.

Margaret Not at all.

Rosie: But I put it in my art and put in the love somewhere. It's not into the person I imagined it would be, but it gave children hope and courage and like just… Knowledge that you don't need to be that extra, extra all that time.

Margaret: Yeah. Well, I mean it's exactly that thing that you were saying earlier. If you can't see it, you can't be it. Yeah. But that's amazing that you can, that you can do that and express all of that. And once you get it out, yeah. Does it, I mean, is it a bit like the prick of the balloon again?

Rosie: Yeah.

A lot of the heartbreak I had from, my unrequited love is, just I have all this love and that goes nowhere.

Margaret: It's really bad for you, yeah. Really bad for you to not express it.

Rosie: If somebody came to me and said, um, just so you know, you make me very happy. You made me so happy that I turned that love into a character that I am incredibly proud of. Even if I hated them, I would go. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's amazing. So that's all she did deserve to know that like she made somebody incredibly happy.

Margaret: I'm crying. Don't laugh at me.

Ah, right. You, you are so right. But did it, so did you wrote the book, which helped with the unrequited love.

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: But did the telling her and her saying, I only see - it's amazing, but I only see you as a friend. Did that help? Did that change the crush?

Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

Margaret: Have you moved on? Is there a new custard?

Rosie: We need hours.

Margaret: I know.

Rosie: Um,

she is annoying. No she’s not annoying. But, like she's still my custard crush. That, and then I have a jam crush .

Margaret: Yeah, I imagine. But is this just a sex thing? Rosie? Is that what you mean?

Rosie: A jam crush is one that, that is normally four weeks.

Margaret: Okay.

Rosie: Normally burns out, quite come and go and um.  You know, in comedy and acting and before that I worked in telly, and it is always contract work. And when I got a new contract, I get a crush.

Margaret: Yeah. On. Oh, it's almost in the contract, isn't it? Yeah.

Rosie: So that will be someone probably day one that I go, I like her.

And uh, they are normally straight and I'm normally very, obvious.

everyone knows that I have a raging crush no one talks about it.

Margaret: How do you know they know?

Rosie: I'm a big flirt. Just holding their hand. Yeah. And they, when I analyse it. It's probably because I have the confidence, so with my jam crush I can go.

When are you going to leave your boyfriend?

Morning, good weekend, are you gay yet?

My psycopathic side is coming out again.

Margaret: So good.

Rosie: You know what though, a jam crush ? Well,

Margaret: do you know what? I'm not, I'm genuinely not surprised about that because I think that when the pressure is off, when you're like, I have, listen, I've got someone in the back who I'm planning on marrying, who I'm obsessed with, I'm in love with, and they are, you know, That freedom. Yeah. That you can have to just be flirty and silly and then suddenly you find, oh, I've got a real connection with this person, and this is actually really fun.

Yeah. That's brilliant.

Rosie: Long time before I was a comedian, I was a researcher on The Last Leg, and I worked in Rio on the Paralympics.

Margaret: Oh wow.

Rosie: And everyone that was there knew .

Margaret: I mean, that is a phrase, isn't it? Yeah. What happens at the Paralympics stays at the Paralympics.

Rosie: Um, and I had a crush on the director but she had a boyfriend. Did that stop me?

Margaret: I hope not.

Rosie: No. But that's a thing about the jam crush. I literally came home and forgot about it. Cause you've always got that custard crush.

Margaret: Yeah, you can can leave the jam.

Stains of jam all over the world.

It's perfect.

Rosie: Until, until God I, uh, until the jam crush, got in touch

Margaret: to say she?

Rosie: because I am wading knee deep in custard.

When the jam crush comes a calling.... Yeah, I didn't, it passed me by, but really, and so she text me and in hindsight now, it was obvious. She says, Hi. Remember me.? I've been thinking about you a lot.

Margaret: Oh my god, Rosie, I'm annoyed with you now.

Rosie: Oh and by the Way I've broken up from my boyfriend shall we go for a drink?

Margaret: oh my God. And you are faffing around with custard?

Rosie: I just thought, oh she's Quite friendly .

Yeah, we'll go for a catch up. Went for my catch up. Again passed me by. In hindsight, it was a date. She told me she was bisexual.

I said That is. lovely. Well done you!

We even held hands!

Margaret: oh my God, you didn't even have to say you needed to.

Rosie: Just two gal pals holding hands. Um, and that. I still have sleepless nights about the next bit . So, um, she text me the following morning

“I had a lot of fun last night. Can we do it again sometime” This was the beginning of November and I replied – no, no. Things are quite hectic right now.

Cos they were and it was not on my radar.

Margaret: Oh, Rosie.

Rosie: And I used the phrase...

Margaret: Oh God.

Rosie: That I never, ever used before. Oh shit. I said “No. Things are quite busy right now. Can we circle back?

Margaret: You should be covering your eyes at this point.

Rosie: Can we circle back in the New Year?

Margaret: Circle back in the new year.

Who are you?

Rosie: Oh my God. I'm Lord Alan Sugar.

Margaret: Turns out, oh my God.

Rosie: In but fair play to her. Okay., I wouldn't have done this. I would have buried myself, in the garden.

Margaret: Oh my God.

Rosie: She texted me. Happy New Year, I'm circling back.

Margaret: She's amazing.

Rosie: Margaret, still no idea.

Margaret: What!?

Rosie: I know! I said to her. Which is all true... I was like, Happy New Year. Great to hear from you. I'm so sorry, but I'm gigging and filming every day, which, I was? But if I knew it was on a romantic level...

Margaret: Well, you, I'm, I'm so angry. I like, did you fancy her?

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: What were you… I was thinking, the only way I will accept this is if you'd gone off her.

Rosie: What? No, I'll think

Margaret: you just replied. “Is this romantic?”

Rosie: I mean, yeah, but I'll think, because in Rio...

Margaret: You'd written it off?

Rosie: This is all, me fancying her, I mean, fair play to her.

Margaret: Oh, she's coming out of this story very well!

Rosie: she said. Okay. Um, So I've, I've looked at your website,

Margaret: She's the best.

Rosie: Yeah. And you are gigging near me tonight. I'm coming.

Margaret: Oh my God. Oh my God. Gosh.

Rosie: Still No. Idea. So. I replied

Margaret: like, it sounds like at this point if you, if she'd said, I fancy you, you would've been like, what? This, these obscure clues.

Rosie: Whoa, wait, for it. I did one more.

Margaret: No. I can't take it

Rosie: I said. Brilliant. Can't wait to see you. I got loads of pals in so bring a friend.

She bought a friend.

Margaret: Lovely.

Rosie: Slowly her friend left.  My friends left.

Margaret: She's holding your hand…

Rosie: End of the night, me and her, and she went, okay, have I got to spell it out to you? And I went, What ?

Margaret: I mean Yes, very much so. You're going to have to write it on a cake.

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: This is the only way you understand

Rosie: She says, I fancy you. And.

I was like - ohhhhhhhh!

and uh, she said, uh,

She fancied me yeah. And then. Started dating and annoyingly, I mean, we had a lovely time, but it didn't work out. Yeah. And we parted ways. But it was amazing. To go back to all my friends from The Last Leg and say... You know that girl, wait, she, she came back!

Margaret: she circled back.

Rosie: When I tell someone to circle back, they circle back.

Margaret: You see, that is incredible. And actually, actually it's better than getting together with someone in a normal way, you know? A usual way.

Rosie: Yeah. Oh, it was.

Margaret: It's possible.

Rosie: Yeah.

Margaret: This is not, this is not, oh, I am the low status person in this relationship

Rosie: And then quickly on the trifle…

Margaret: Yes. Yes.

Rosie: They're my celebrity crushes...

Margaret: Great. Okay. How long do they last? Have you had?

Rosie: Oh, I think I got my staples. I got my formative. Yeah. Gillian Anderson.

Margaret: Lovely.

Rosie: Jodie Comer.

Margaret: Yeah.

Rosie: But then, oh yeah, now, well, I love, I got a big thing for just a very good British Actress .

We're talking Sarah Lancashire.

Margaret: Wow.

Rosie: We're talking Nicola Walker. Yeah. They’re quite older. Yeah. And. I’m not sure if it's like a real Crush. Or whether I just want to lie on their bosoms...

Margaret: Well, that is a real crush, isn't it? I mean, it's a version.

Rosie: While they talk to me in their Northern

Margaret: In their no-nonsense, Northern...

Oh, we all want that. I sort of think that those are crushes.

I mean, from my point of view, just someone that you want to run your life for you. Yeah. No, and they're lovely. Yeah. But they just, yeah, they're... It's not a sexy thing particularly, it's just like, oh, no come and run my life for me. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to say be my mum. You've got a perfectly lovely mum.

Rosie: Yeah. I mean we're going into therapy here. An older northern woman, I'm going not dig into…

Margaret: okay. We're not digging into the cream that's, uh, yeah. The Producers shaking her head. Fine.

Rosie: Actually we've done the trifle .

Margaret: Okay. Well, what are the strawberries?

Rosie: Those are fuck buddies .

Margaret: Oh, how lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

They, I'm not sure if they're a buddy it counts as a crush.. Like,

in your head they're a fuck buddy? Yeah, sure. They're a pure sex, hate their personality….

Rosie: No. Yes,

Margaret: Just the person you despise.

Rosie: No, I tell you what, the strawberry is. I, I thought it on the way here. I,

The strawberries are my daily. Um, love affairs. So if I'm in a Cafe... This morning. I was in a cafe and a woman smiled and I was, oh my God.

We'd probably move to Brighton. Look at her hips, I think she will carry our children.

Yeah.

Margaret: I get this all the time.

Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

Margaret: You know. A nice man in a duffle coat in a second handbook

shop.

Rosie: That one.

Margaret: That one. I mean, I do need to at some point say that in your trifle there should be some elements of cake or sponge fingers or something.

Rosie: Oh yeah, very liquidy…

Margaret: Look, we might have to get you. Very liquid. We might have to just get you back on at some point and just you talk you through that.

Rosie: I forgot!

Margaret: it's cause you were knee deep in custard, which is the phrase I'll never forget.

The maths.

Do you know the maths?

Rosie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Margaret: Who are you? No, you don't. You don't have to give me a full name. You could write it down, I guess.

Rosie: Okay.

Margaret: I love, love how secretive that was. It's, I'm afraid it's 39%. But listen, you've popped the bubble. The balloon. I popped the balloon. So you don't need this, very accurate…

Rosie: Is that the lowest?

Margaret: no, no. A few people have had seventeens. Oh no. Yes. So don't worry. It's, uh, you know, a joke.

Yeah, it's, yeah. I mean, you're supposed to move on at this point anyway, . You're gonna find someone new. We're gonna go to a cafe now. Get someone to smile at you…

Rosie: Custard! Looking for new custard.

Margaret: Definitely gonna work. Thank you very much. You've been amazing. Oh yeah. Rosie Jones!

Rosie: I have loved it!

Margaret: So that was Rosie Jones. I probably should have picked her up on the fact that I don't think she's a psychopath or a pervert. Um, but I know I describe myself like that all the time. It's fine. It's fine. Um, so she was amazing and we did carry on talking for quite a long time afterwards, about what else was going on in her life.

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